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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000>Hm, you are mainly
right with your mail but imho you misunderstand the role of OS/content releated
to CF:D and the dx client.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>I coded the
dx client 2 years ago to give CF the power to grow in the windows world. It
was never my wish to lower or</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>weaken the
unix/linux role inside the project. I for my person would always prefer a unix
server instead of a windows server.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>The problem
is, that some people on the linux/unix only side of this project (and in
the open source community at all imho) fear that they lose something
when the </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>project grow up in other OS, mainly in windows. First,
this is not what i call "open source or open projects". Then better you say
"open linux only source". Second, its a misunderstanding about the dynamic of
projects and development. The trick to </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>make it a win for
all </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>ist to arrange a "win to win situation". More ppl from
windows will invoke more gamers. This will invoke more map makers - means more
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>content back to linux... etc. Only one
example.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>This is a
fundamental synergy situation - let me note that i am starting a
company where this kind of synergy effects are one of the pillars of
the</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>business
idea.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000>I dropped the dx
client, because it fits not 100% in this (and it was not designed to
be open source). The SDL client is the successor.
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000000>He gives all OS the
same power.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>The CF:D
project parts like client, server & editor will have same power for all
OS. Means you use it in the same on windows AND on linux. A linux user must
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>never even touch windows for every part of the system -
EVERY part use a native OS based library. Editor use java, SDL use low
layer and direct hardware and the server is plain C textconsole (this should be
native for all to). And thats the "trick".</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>Now you can
include a feature or idea in every part of the system - and it will reflect in
useful, native way in every OS java and sdl will run.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>The system is
a true, real linux system. And its a true, real windows system. CF:D will not in
a single way less linux based as the original CF.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>Its very
simple: i want to serve gamers - not OS. After i have installed the OS releated
stuff, i want never think again about different OS.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>Also, there
are some "gaming standards" out. They are not defined by windows - more from
consoles. This means there is a "state of art" </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>what and how
you use gfx, sounds, music and interface. A widget client like the
gtk can't serve this standard. Dot. Hand down. SDL
can.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>If you see
CF:D in aciton, you will understand what i mean. Be sure you will be
impressed.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>CF:D is not a
"split effort". It is THE split in the next generation. CF has born a child
and thats called CF:D. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>What happend
here is a fundamental part when not the core idea of open source.
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>And i
honestly don't think there is a way back. When you reinclude all my stuff in CF
- then you have CF:D.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>Note, that i
use atm the CF cvs server and just diff him to CF:D. You can even connect to the
public test server of CF:D</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>at
damn.informatik.uni-bremen.de with any CF client - it will run fine (but you
will not be able to really play because the difference is inside
the</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>interface).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>In fact , i
must now code a version test, because people who connect with older flat clients
to the new servers think the server or</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>his clients
are broken because the map is distorted invoked by the different tile size.
Also, i can then do some changes to the</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>server->client protocol. ATM, all my stuff i coded
for holding it compatible are still working. After i reinsert the code parts who
was removed</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>as i left CF
dev team it runs fine. Damn has not crashed a single time in the days even wild
different clients has connected and the whole arch</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>set was build
up from ground.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=520513918-08052002>I think we
will release the first 0.9 version including installed CVS at the end of the
week or in the middle of next week.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=520513918-08052002>MichToen</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ya I was being a pain on purpose. I
actually have no problem personally running the linux client, but I do
know 3 people who currently play a lot who would not, and 3
<BR>more people who have played a bit who also would not use
linux. That is 6 to 1. I also know at least 20 other people
who would probably take a look (I'm working on <BR>them) but again only
if it was a) windows client, and b) easy to install. 26 to 1 then. These
people are great gamers with not much interest in operating systems or in
figuring out how to install software - they just like to play
games. One of my friends who is playing asked me about the Java
MapEditor...you see where this goes. This is why I think that it would be
a very great boon to the game to have a windows compatible
client.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also think it would not be worthwhile to
maintain a separate windows client - so I agree that the best thing
would be a single cross-platform client (GTK, SDL whatever). I
agree so much that I think private windows clients would probably be a
bad thing (I see the effort that Michael Toennies is putting into C:D that
could be going into CF - not that that is wrong - that's the system, but
it is still split effort). Having a separate development for other
platform clients almost guarantees that they <BR>will always be either
behind the main development stream and always be <BR>holding things up,
or they will go off somewhere, mutate or die. There have been three win
clients I know of, all out of date now, and this indicates to me that this
approach does not work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I certainly don't want progress on the server to
halt to support old clients, but this tough beans attitude towards a
windows client is troublesome since it is alienating to a whole segment
of players who have no alternative. (is there any idea how many people
are using DX client?, MIDs poll shows it is 26% of their players, but I have
no way to make an accurate prediction from that - is there a way to
report on this from the metaserver?) The feeling I get from reading these
forums is that a windows client is something people maybe don't want to
have (or possibly have to deal with anyway). It probably isn't
planned that way, but it amounts to the same thing. I know CF was a
unix game, and if that is what it is to be then that's fine, but
currently it isn't a unix only game. I was, in my snarky way, making the
point that you will loose these people to other games if they cannot play -
likely they will not return.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I certainly don't expect you to do this - develop
or maintain other<BR>clients. I have not yet contributed a speck of code
to CF (although I am trying to work on some stuff), I wouldn't tell
anyone what they should contribute. Somebody should do it
however, and the only way it will get done is to make mention of it-
often, maybe even make it an priority item. The fact is that if it is
made a priority it has a better chance ofgetting done (If people want it
to be done...) I can understand wanting to have concrete evidence that work
was being done on a windows client before delaying updates to the server code,
but if you are proposing changes that will cut off a third of your
players (again extrapolating from the MIDs poll - really should get more info
on this...), it should be highlighted in the proposal - contingency plans
made for it (a server for windows client?). I wanted to flush this out
into the open, since I think the client is the most important part of the
game, and players are the life blood. I also think it is a great game or
I wouldn't be bothering sticking my nose into this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway hope I didn't offend. I know it was
just a proposal - I was responding to the proposal. (I would like to get
away from multipart monsters too...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-TM</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>