*chuckle* yeah - I'm getting that impression - he's my advisor - but if
there's one thing I learned at St. Paul tech, is not to count on their
advising...which is fine - I've gone through three universities by now.
I've learned how to work the system...

Anyway - Thanks!!!

Liz

On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Miller, John wrote:

> I got my AAS from St. Paul Tech.  The teacher to avoid would be Warren
> Shaffer.  Wonderful guy but he can be unpredictable and deviates from the
> syllabus all the time.  I had him for many of my programming classes.  Every
> class, except for the last one I had, started 15 to 20 minutes late.  The
> last one started on time because he scheduled it to start 20 minutes after
> the "official" start time.  I did have him for C++ and he shined in that
> class.  St. Paul Tech offers a UNIX class, I took it.  It just covered the
> basics.  
> 
> John Miller
> Dain Rauscher Inc.
> Application Services
> IS Capital Markets
> Phone 612-547-7573
> Fax 612-547-7580
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Liz Burke-Scovill [mailto:kethry at winternet.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 6:16 PM
> To: tclug-list at lists.real-time.com
> Subject: [TCLUG] Schools and Programming - Java class review.
> 
> 
> 
> St. Paul Tech - it's part of my C++/Java Programmer's certificate. I just
> finished Java Programming 1 - I wanted to wait until I have more practical
> experience before taking Java Programming 2 - besides I havne't started on
> the C/C++ track yet and that's core to the certificate. Anyway...
> 
> I don't know much else about the other teachers there but I really liked
> the Java class that Ken Krutsch taught. For one, instead of the Java in 21
> Days-like books that the other instructors chose, Ken chose the Java
> Programming book published by Sun. Supposedly he was supposed to teach
> towards certification, but as he said on day 1, he wouldn't get to teach
> us as much as he did, and besides, we wouldn't remember it after the exam
> anyway. So...the first half of the semester was spent learning the basic
> language elements, installing compiling, running Java programs that speak
> with the command prompt as opposed through a GUI, etc...the second half of
> the course went through discussing probably the more important API's -
> java.awt.*, javax.swing.*, multithreading, streams, servlets, etc... He's
> been programming for about 15 years professionally, and picked up Java
> when the white paper was released. Since Java came out, he's been
> professionally programming it, usually as a consultant, and usually as the
> person they called to clean up code. What this meant was a) there were
> times where he was difficult to understand but he really gave us a good
> core understanding of the language - where it came from, how it can be
> implemented, and how to write things different ways - always emphasizing
> error handling and non-spaghetti code. 
> 
> Let's see - on the linux side - well, he's a unix guy from way back, so
> would give us all of the cool tips and tools - which wouldn't run on
> Windows - because he uses linux primarily at home - for those that had to
> use windows, he provided us with links to unix shell programs that allowed
> you to use your command prompt as if you were in unix - and could use vi,
> emacs, etc...was pretty cool - unfortunately he didn't give instructions
> on how to install them, and much of the software provided I didn't have
> time to fiddle and play with until I could get it to work - not with two
> kids and full time job in addition to WAY TOO MANY outside interests like
> Renn Fest, etc., but I digress....
> 
> I spent the first half of the semester wondering if I would even pass the
> class as this was my first programming class in 10 years...and I didn't do
> well on the test, but what I found was no matter what I did on the tests,
> I came away with a really thorough understanding of the language (I did
> Ace the final, btw) - and was able to use it in my job to analyze a rather
> large web based application...
> 
> Soooooooooo.....the long and the short of it is - if you can ever take a
> class by Ken Krutsch - definitely do so...
> 
> Liz
> 
> 
> On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, grey Moon-Wolf wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- Liz Burke-Scovill <kethry at winternet.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I'm starting my C++ class next month if that counts
> > > ;)...
> > > 
> > > Liz
> > Liz,
> > Where are you taking C++? Just curious... - Manuel
> > 
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> 

-- 
Imagination is intelligence having fun...
e-mail:  kethry at winternet.com
URL:  http://WWW.winternet.com/~kethry/index.html