Not true. When I was at Internet Exposure I eventually hired an apprentice of sorts. Igor was 10 years my senior, had 2 inches and 60 pounds on me, but was hired as more or less an assistant admin. He knew basic unix, from a user standpoint (perms, file manipulation, etc) but he wanted to learn everything about unix administration. He did very well, learned extremely quickly. Eventually he became more interested in the networking side of things, and went and got his CCNA after I had left the company. Between him and one of the programmers, they were able to keep the company functioning until my replacement was found. You're right about experience though, and that's always been difficult. The only way to become good at your job is through experience, but breaking into the field to get that experience is tough. Fortunately for us, the demand for skilled tech workers is high enough that many companies will take whoever they can get. Adam Maloney Systems Administrator Sihope Communications On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Jamie Ostrowski wrote: > > > While I certainly agree that certifications have become abused for the > most part (look at the MCSE), I think that the only way to become a good > admin is EXPERIENCE! I think that getting certification by no means makes > someone a good admin in the least, I think it shows they know enough where > once in the workplace and in an environment where problems crop up, they > can start applying their book knowledge towards real life problems. You > still need training in real life after the certification, but the only > place to receive that is mainly through work. But who is going to hire an > apprentice Unix admin?? Answer: NOBODY. > The sad truth is, when you are working with this stuff at your job you > learn very quickly. But it is very hard getting into the job to start true > learning. That is the frustration I am dealing with right now. Especially > when the government and market place is in such an upheavel, nobody wants > to hire. > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Adam Maloney wrote: > > > <opinion mode=noflame plea=pretty-please> > > BrainBench certs are worthless in the job market. Besides the > > tests being too easy to cheat, the exams are poorly thought out. > > > > According to them, I'm one of the top-fifty fastest typers in America (at > > least I was...so long ago) > > The unix admin test asked me what a user ID was. I passed with > > flying colors. Knowing what a UID is makes me a unix admin? > > > > We've had this discussion on isp-services. Brainbench is good for a > > laugh, but no company will hire you for it. I don't know that the $750 > > RedHat test is taken any more seriously, but at least it won't be as > > diluted as Brainbench because it's so expensive. > > > > <rant> > > Brainbench became as bad as MCSE, but in 1/10th of the time. I don't know > > anything about the redhat exam, but let me tell you what a good > > certification is not. For $1000 you can go to an MCSE boot camp, memorize > > the possible questions and answers, and statistically only have to take > > the test 2 or 3 times until you get 75% (or whatever) of the answers > > that you remembered. Congratulations, you're an MCSE/CCNA/A+ or whatever. > > You'll get hired as the head of IT because of your MCSE, but you won't > > know anything. Maybe this is why most NT systems suck so bad - nothing > > but the anti-clues running the show. You know that TCP/IP is that thingy > > you need to install to make your NT system talk to the internet, but you > > don't know that it's based on a 7-layer burrito...er...model. Subnet > > masks are always 255.255.255.0. Event Viewer is how you troubleshoot, > > etc. > > </rant> > > > > Again, I don't know how the redhat exam is put together, so I can't say > > whether it's worth the money or not. I'm sure you'll do very well, but > > don't expect to be able to whip out a Brainbench certificate during an > > interview and not get laughed at. You might as well buy a degree from the > > Diploma Spammer (once spammed, twice LARTed). > > > > </opinion> > > > > <fact> > > Some companies might pay for the test. Working down the hall from, and > > providing access to Ascolta and Techskills, I get quite a deal on tests > > and certs (if I only had the friggin time!). Many companies will pay for > > your training and certification, if it will make you more valuable to > > them. > > </fact> > > > > <sig (hey, I'm on a roll here...)> > > Adam Maloney > > Systems Administrator > > Sihope Communications > > > > On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, grey Moon-Wolf wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Jamie Ostrowski <jamie at floyd.getsetnet.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about studying for the RHCE test. > > > > Has anyone here thought > > > > about studying, or have taken the test? > > > > I must admit I was shocked by the price to take > > > > the test. $749! I wonder > > > > how they justify charging so much to administer an > > > > exam. That seems > > > > somewhat ludicrous. I have been eating Maruchan > > > > Raman noodles for months > > > > now. That certification sounds good, but may take me > > > > several years to save > > > > up for that test! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > > > > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > Jamie, > > > Just go to brainbench.com... it's free... and it is > > > one tough nut for testing. But the certificates are real. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tclug-list mailing list > > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tclug-list mailing list > > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > tclug-list mailing list > tclug-list at lists.real-time.com > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >