Keep the flaming, trolls, etc. to a minimum. Go to IRC so you can really have it out if you must vent. I (yes me!) don't want the archives full of bitching. IRC is good for flamewars, there is generally no log of it :-) I do not want the list to degrade into a whining-fest, nor am I all the keen on splitting the list because it always dilutes each list. If you got a beef do it in PRIVATE email. Instead of just saying, "Stop doing that!" in public, send a private email, EXPLAIN how to "stop" what they are going wrong. Are you really pissed? Write the response, post-pone it, sleep on it, and re-read it in the morning. You'll see how much of an ass you where about to be and may not send it. I've done this many times. Certain people who CLAIM to be systems administrator should know better then just beat-down a user for some mailing list infractions. In most instance, ignorance is not an excuse, but let's help educate each other instead of beating each other up. Good admins know better then to pound the reply, grab the flamethrower, type furiously away, and send the mail. GREAT admins know how to help their users in a way that does not make the user feel stupid. You can replace admin with linux users. Let's keep the community together. Thanks. -- Minneapolis St. Paul Twin Cities MN | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org Minnesota Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9