> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-admin at mn-linux.org

> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > Anyone else have similar feelings?
>
> i disagree, first of all at this point we are are straped for
> places to
> hold installfests at, we should not eliminate a place because
> it does not
> meet our educational standard

We are NOT strapped: we just haven't tried much and now are ignoring other
immediate offers.

Wrong ideas about "educational standards": some of the issues are whether
TCLUG folk are the type/quality that a business might hire for serious
technical stuff, or whether they are categorically a hobbyist group with at
most non-degree technician skills... on the average and the goal.  To
welcome non-degreed folks from anywhere is fine, but to indicate that the
ceiling is no higher than vo-tech, and off the academic track for
professional skills (state regs indicate what "professional" means, and in
engineering cases it is specific about having a degree).


> second, personally i would rather have an installfest at a
> High school or
> under a bridge than at a business, the tclug is a community
> NOT a business
> and should be assosiated with learning rather than a business

Meeting at a business does not reduce learning or technical excellence.
Suffice to say that unix came from Bell Labs, a business, and that the best
paying software/IT jobs are in high tech businesses here in town.  I think
you are grossly wrong in that idea, but the life choices are yours, of
course.  In general, competent people are paid for what they can do, and
high tech businesses pay to hire, support, and develop education in many
ways.  Target (et al) might not.

> third, what is wrong with vo-tech colleges? you claim
> uneducated people,
> since when is a university the ONLY source of education?

Truck driving and department store PC repair is great, but it doesn't
satisfy the state licensing regs for what "professional" engineering
requires, nor does it add to a resume when seeking a professional caliber
job.  Of course, it is an advancing gateway into "the business" for some,
but my point is the tougher image one about the implied ceilings on
education and average levels of education.  Not being able or not seeking to
get business sponsors is a direct indication that TCLUG may have no business
value or relevance for its kind of learning and participation.  Some here
may care a great deal about that implication.


> how many people on this list have a college education from a
> university?
> college? high school? life? how many here are even PLANNING
> on going to
> university much less grad school?

Interesting question!  All the Linux users I knew before joining here are
degreed engineers in high tech industry.  Some are brilliant PhDs who own
businesses and employ people locally.  In fact, a PhD employed "in business"
at UMN sent me a notice of an InstallFest and is the cause of my being here.
I certainly welcome folks of all backgrounds, and would encourage even JrHS
kids to participate, but I wouldn't like the image that TCLUG activity may
be a "disqualifier" for solid technical values at levels above and way
beyond the vo-techs.

> anyways, enough ranting?

Not hardly enough!  The group needs to consider this stuff if it ever has a
mission and enough form for serious non-profit donations of support to
occur.
One way to confuse these issues greatly would be for TCLUG to sponsor an
Explorer Scout troop.. and welcome young women to join.  The scout troop
idea sets the aim to be education and the adults need only be good enough to
help the kids.     :-)


---

Chuck