On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Chuck Cole wrote: > Wrong ideas about "educational standards": some of the issues are whether > TCLUG folk are the type/quality that a business might hire for serious > technical stuff, or whether they are categorically a hobbyist group with at > most non-degree technician skills... on the average and the goal. To > welcome non-degreed folks from anywhere is fine, but to indicate that the > ceiling is no higher than vo-tech, and off the academic track for > professional skills (state regs indicate what "professional" means, and in > engineering cases it is specific about having a degree). > Err... since when are we a 'type', and since when do you need to, on average, have a degree to learn about Linux? Isn't the whole point of an InstallFest to have those of us who know something about Linux help those who don't (be they a mechanic, housewife, or PhD) get it installed and show them some of what it can do? How, exactly, does Dunwoody fail to meet these standards? Why do we need to say there's a ceiling at all? Do you honestly think that someone will say 'Well, I wanted to hire you, but it would appear that you once attended a Linux InstallFest at Dunwoody Institute... now, if it had been at St. Thomas, you'd be enrolling in your 401k program as we speak, but Dunwoody... *tsktsk*'. If an InstallFest location meets our needs, what's the difference whether they offer Associates in Applied Science and a Bachelor of Science degree program (as Dunwoody does) or graduate programs (as some other colleges do)? > Meeting at a business does not reduce learning or technical excellence. > Suffice to say that unix came from Bell Labs, a business, and that the best > paying software/IT jobs are in high tech businesses here in town. I think > you are grossly wrong in that idea, but the life choices are yours, of > course. In general, competent people are paid for what they can do, and > high tech businesses pay to hire, support, and develop education in many > ways. Target (et al) might not. > Target does more to sponsor education than most tech companies. They just aim at public schools that can use the money, rather than colleges that're raising tuition to pay multimillion dollar salaries. > Truck driving and department store PC repair is great, but it doesn't > satisfy the state licensing regs for what "professional" engineering > requires, nor does it add to a resume when seeking a professional caliber > job. Of course, it is an advancing gateway into "the business" for some, > but my point is the tougher image one about the implied ceilings on > education and average levels of education. Not being able or not seeking to > get business sponsors is a direct indication that TCLUG may have no business > value or relevance for its kind of learning and participation. Some here > may care a great deal about that implication. > Why should the TCLUG have business value? It is, by definition, a User's Group. Not an organization of professional Linux developers and admins that require a degree and GPA to get in. There aren't dues. There aren't membership cards. We don't kick you out if you decide to drive a truck for a living or repair PCs. > Interesting question! All the Linux users I knew before joining here are > degreed engineers in high tech industry. Some are brilliant PhDs who own > businesses and employ people locally. In fact, a PhD employed "in business" > at UMN sent me a notice of an InstallFest and is the cause of my being here. > I certainly welcome folks of all backgrounds, and would encourage even JrHS > kids to participate, but I wouldn't like the image that TCLUG activity may > be a "disqualifier" for solid technical values at levels above and way > beyond the vo-techs. > I have an Associate of Arts degree from Anoka-Ramsey Community College. I got it as I graduated high school. I didn't get a BA or BS (strangely, when you're a Biology major and spend all your time on the computer, you don't do so well in school). Somehow, in spite of having a blight like community college on my resume, I was hired to do work that has 'B.S. in Computer Science' in its requirements. Somehow, I managed to acquire skills without having a degree. Imagine that. -- Michael Vieths Foeclan at Visi.com