Mike - You're exactly the kind of person I was hoping would speak up! I was thinking that within the context of TCWUG, which doesn't exist to make any money at all, it seemed to fit that a business that grew out of it would also not be so interested in being profitable as to create a large, shared network. That's just my perception - I'm personally all for making money, I was making an assumption that probably isn't all that valid. Yes - I was just spewing. I don't have any personal knowledge of the industry. I was basing it primarily on the low number of ISP's currently operating combined with the two basic pricing models - AOL based = $21 a month with lots of handholding, vs. your friendly local ISP that's cheaper and will provide lots of help, but without the warm and fuzzy style that AOL seems to make so much money on. I'm not trying to criticize you, your ISP or the industry at all - I personally prefer the more direct method that a local ISP provides - I'm just trying to give a sense of perception, which is pretty critical for any business be they profit or non-profit. It seemed like for a while there, there were dozens of ISP's thrown together on the fly out of people garages - some survived, other's disappeared. I would think that the same phenomena would apply to wireless. Bandwidth consumption is a critical problem - how do you control it at your ISP? - Nick -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Horwath Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:08 PM To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Richochet boxes? On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 11:46:56AM -0500, Nick Ryberg wrote: > The question of money is pretty critical - if we, as the TCWUG > developed a city wide system, and then had end users pay for access, > we'd almost by definition have to be non-profit. That's doesn't > mean that we, collectively, couldn't make money off of the idea, > it's just a lot different from your basic ISP startup who's sole > purpose is to make money, and preferrably lots of it. I would guess > that in several years, some sort of city-wide ISP will probably > offer this ala Ricochet (or maybe even Richochet itself?), and that > would make it difficult to compete. I don't know many companies > successfully offering dial-up out of their garage anymore - there > just isn't much profit to be made. But if we got in at the ground > floor (or would that be the second floor, altitude wise?), and > established a presence before Earthlink/AOL/whoever comes in and > drops million$ on the Twin Cities, this idea might just survive. > Furthermore, if it was non-profit, there might be some sort of > funding (grants, etc...) that would help cover startup costs. Why a non-profit? I wouldn't want the overhead of being a not for profit company if it is a company that is going to make some cash. It is no easier to do a NfP than to do a fP company, in fact, for lots of the rules and regs, a fP is far easier. Now as to whether a dialup provider is profitable...are you speaking from experience or just spewing? As someone who does the tech shit at an ISP, including the budgetting, procurement, and setup/runtime of ISP gear, I can say that dialup can be profitable. Whether you can buy a shitload of gear and make it profitable...time to set up a business plan. First, you can't offer all you can eat - because there are assholes that will eat all that you give them. All it is going to take is a couple of pr0n or warez hounds and your model will be shot as you only have so much bandwidth at 802.11b layouts. There are many on this list that will do just that, and not because they are assholes (it is a term I use :), but because it is available. I look forward to the next meeting. -- Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau drechsau at Geeks.ORG Home: 763-540-6815 1901 Sumter Ave N, Golden Valley, MN 55427 Opinions stated in this message, or any message posted by myself through my Geeks.ORG address, are mine and mine alone, period. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list at tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list